The Alternate Timeline

[frostysnowbro]

There were two sequences of Juliet setting off the bomb. One sends them all back into the future. The other creates an alternate timeline where we see what could have happened.

However, before I discuss it further, what are we going to call it? Do we want to call it the Alternate Timeline? I mean, we got Flashbacks and Flashforwards, so what do we call these?

Alternatives?
Alternates?
Glimpses?

Jim? Carrie? Wicked? any ideas?

[WickedSlip]

well, we were told that flash forwards and backs were done, that they were going to use a new narrative device so i'd go with Flash Sideways. (even though, technically, if this is a "reset" of the past (2004) that will happen in the future (post 2004 in terms of the timeline we know) then it's a flahs forward, flashback and flash sideways all at once.

i have a few thoughts on our options of interpreting the new universe (i have about 5 options so far), but i have to take the kids to school, so the post will have to wait til later.

edit:

well, i think the leading assumption here is that juliet setting off the bomb is what created the alt.

i don't like popular assumptions so i'm going to play devils advocate and try and brainstorm what the other options are, including their logical flaws. i obviously can't think of them all so i'll need all ya'll to help. (there is a difference in my use of timeline and universe here, btw)

(1) jules set off bomb and em creates anti universe in which the causal loop of them arriving at the island and setting off the bomb does not exist. possible points of contention: the PAST of the alt is changed., which implies that the alt has a complete history, not an exact history with a point of deviation in 2004. to me, that indicates the alt is OLDER than the 1977 bomb detonation date. BUT that makes sense in context of candle's bunny. it's nto like the anti-bunny he created didn't have a point of origin outside of its appearance to candle....so *ouch* my head hurts.

(2) there is one universe with a revised and alternate timeline. jules set off the bomb and created a new FUTURE timeline, she did not create an alternate universe. the alt we're seeing is not a universe parallel to the one we know but a replacement part of the timline we know. it's a reset to occur at a later date, a supplement to the timeline and universe in existence. meaning: at somepoint in the universe we know (2007 with flocke and 815 crash in 2004) there is a reset at which point the timelines. flaw: that would suck (but that is just my opinion. i really don't want to have seen the end before the end)

(3) there were always two timelines. the island is the shared point of origin for both and they've always run parallel to one another.

(4) the true "alt" is really the universe we have always assumed was the original and we have it backwards. it's the CRASH universe that is deviant, not the Not Crash universe.

(5)jules doesn't set off bomb at all

(6) jules sets off bomb but it has no diret correlation to the creation of the alt...jacob's DEATH is the cause


there are assboatloads of possibilities. i'm just trying to think outside of the box in the event that the popular assumption is just artful misdirection on darlton's part.

[Viva]

I originally felt like the alternate timeline bit was a copout. To me it was Darlton saying, "here, let's do both and make everyone happy." I realize now that I was experiencing an emotional reaction to something I had not anticipated. I had not anticipated them to deliver both a straight and familiar timeline and the New and Improved Alternate Timeline.

I reflected most of the day about this, much to my employer's dismay I'm sure. However, I was really bothered by the delivery of both versions of our characters separate realities. I kept thinking why both? What's the point of showing us both? If everything can be undone and you can call a mulligan on your choices thus far, then why bother with showing us two versions of what can/could/should happen?

Then I wondered if it was a situation like schrodinger's cat. Meaning due to the strange circumstances of the incident, our survivors simultaneously dead in the 1977 to present of the New and Improved timeline because a bomb went off annihilating the island and everything on it, AND they are alive in the familiar timeline we all know because the electromagnetic anomaly blasted our survivors back to their future at the exact same the bomb went off.

So, our friends are both dead and alive, like the cat. We will not know the outcome until we "open the box". Opening the box effects which outcome will be true. So I postulate that our survivors in both realities will come to a unifying event in the finale where "the box will be opened" and one reality will be true and the other false. Only in the singularity will the truth of past and future be woven together to produce an actual timeline.

I am terrible at explaining things, did that make any sense? I am simply trying to justify to myself why they would showcase two different sets of events. I imagine that neither is actually alternate, but both are true versions of two possible timelines. That is why we are getting to see what happens when the plane doesn't crash. We assume the plane actually crashed because that is the timeline we already saw, but it is no more true than the one we are seeing now. The box is closed. The plane crashed and didn't crash. The survivors blew up the swan and didn't blow up the swan. Only when we open the box will we find out what actually happened. Because as Daniel said, we are the variables. Sometimes what happened, didn't happen.

The unifying singularity at the end will be the ultimate portrayal of freewill. The hero(es) will choose their destiny.

[jimpbblmk]

That's exactly what I thought was going on: a Schrodinger's cat, quantum-theory sort of thing.

[frostysnowbro]

You know, Viva, you may be onto something.

The reason I was trying to figure out how Juliet knew "it worked" was at what point did she have knowledge of the second timeline?

At first, we were meant to believe it was near death delerium. When Juliet was hugging sawyer and whispered, "We should get coffee sometimes . . . . We'll go dutch."

What if it wasn't delerium? Was if, at that particular moment, she was starting to transcend to the Other timeline and she was meeting Alternate Sawyer?


Ugh.
why do the writers have to do this?

[Jezabelle]

I don't think it was death delirium, but what happened or happens to Juliet is the same thing that happened to Desmond after he blew up the hatch.

I don't know. The more I read out there the more confused I become.

[Viva]

That's exactly what I think Jez. She was right there when the incident occurred. Ground zero, just like good ole Des when he turned the failsafe key. She was sent away. At least that's what I would like to think.

I could elaborate on the idea of sometimes what happened, didn't happen, but I don't think anyone wants to read about my justification for that.

At least under this idea I can tolerate the idea of two separate (sorta) timelines.

[Viva]

I originally felt like the alternate timeline bit was a copout. To me it was Darlton saying, "here, let's do both and make everyone happy." I realize now that I was experiencing an emotional reaction to something I had not anticipated. I had not anticipated them to deliver both a straight and familiar timeline and the New and Improved Alternate Timeline.

I reflected most of the day about this, much to my employer's dismay I'm sure. However, I was really bothered by the delivery of both versions of our characters separate realities. I kept thinking why both? What's the point of showing us both? If everything can be undone and you can call a mulligan on your choices thus far, then why bother with showing us two versions of what can/could/should happen?

Then I wondered if it was a situation like schrodinger's cat. Meaning due to the strange circumstances of the incident, our survivors simultaneously dead in the 1977 to present of the New and Improved timeline because a bomb went off annihilating the island and everything on it, AND they are alive in the familiar timeline we all know because the electromagnetic anomaly blasted our survivors back to their future at the exact same the bomb went off.

So, our friends are both dead and alive, like the cat. We will not know the outcome until we "open the box". Opening the box effects which outcome will be true. So I postulate that our survivors in both realities will come to a unifying event in the finale where "the box will be opened" and one reality will be true and the other false. Only in the singularity will the truth of past and future be woven together to produce an actual timeline.

I am terrible at explaining things, did that make any sense? I am simply trying to justify to myself why they would showcase two different sets of events. I imagine that neither is actually alternate, but both are true versions of two possible timelines. That is why we are getting to see what happens when the plane doesn't crash. We assume the plane actually crashed because that is the timeline we already saw, but it is no more true than the one we are seeing now. The box is closed. The plane crashed and didn't crash. The survivors blew up the swan and didn't blow up the swan. Only when we open the box will we find out what actually happened. Because as Daniel said, we are the variables. Sometimes what happened, didn't happen.

The unifying singularity at the end will be the ultimate portrayal of freewill. The hero(es) will choose their destiny.

Hey, Jez... if you are out there: Looks like this season was schroedinger's cat. They WERE alive and dead! Freaky. So despite all our weird theories, there is some accuracy sprinkled in there.

[Jezabelle]

I will pencil in a check mark in the lonely win column in case it needs to be erased later. ;)