Charles Widmore (Alan Dale)

[Viva]

I can't believe that Widmore does not have his own character thread yet. Let's get down to it.

He started off on the Island? Is that true? He was working for Alpert? That was a juicy tidbit. So now we have to fill in massive gaps for Wid. MASSIVE.

I find it fitting that he came from the island. Do you think he ends up disagreeing with Richard and wanting to capitalize on the island's uniqueness? They go their separate ways and that's why Rich ends up finding Ben to be their new inside man. Ben wipes out the DI (which maybe WId is involved with somehow) and they become rivals.

Is that who we think WIdmore is?

discuss.

[AprilisLost]

I assume that Widmore was recruited to join the Others just like Juliet was, not that he was actually born on the island.

He seems kind of unpredictable and angry as a young man, I wonder why the Others would have tapped him.

I think that perhaps the reason that Widmore hates Ben so much is that Widmore was the former leader (when he got a little older than we saw him last night), and Ben took his place much like Locke took Ben's. I think that the former leader has to leave the island before the new one can take over.

[Viva]

I assume that Widmore was recruited to join the Others just like Juliet was, not that he was actually born on the island.

He seems kind of unpredictable and angry as a young man, I wonder why the Others would have tapped him.

I think that perhaps the reason that Widmore hates Ben so much is that Widmore was the former leader (when he got a little older than we saw him last night), and Ben took his place much like Locke took Ben's. I think that the former leader has to leave the island before the new one can take over.

I especially like this last little tidbit.

~rubs hands together and makes and evil face

Except Richard is still there? Well I guess since he's the man behind the curtain he will ALWAYS be there.

[AprilisLost]

Except Richard is still there? Well I guess since he's the man behind the curtain he will ALWAYS be there.

I don't think Richard is the leader per say. I think he's more of the liaison between the Island/Jacob and the Others.

[Viva]

We were discussing earlier in another thread that Desmond was key in setting this chain of events (crash of 815 and so on...)forward. Then Carrie established that Wid was actually the driving force behind setting Des in motion. So, I wonder if we go a step beyond that who sent Wid on his path? Richard?

[Patte]

Don't forget that Keamy, Widmore's hired mercenary, was reading the secondary protocol that he removed from the safe on the freighter, from a folder with a Dharma logo on the front.

[Viva]

yea, I think that Wid is a major dharma player.

[AVREY97]

Im currently working on a revised version of my Charles Widmore theory, due to recent events.
Im thinking that Widmore was born on the island or atleast brought at an extremely young age. He was chosen to be the leader of the others by Richard. But it was Lockes meeting with Richard that actually changed that, though Charles will eventually come to blame Ben.

Im thinking that when Dharma comes to the island, Charles in intregued, but not willing to risk losing his position with Richard. Like Ethan, and Goodwin after him, Charles plants himself inside Dharma. (Hense why he knows all the protocols, and knows who Ben is) But rather than doing his job and distroying Dharma, Charles falls in love with a woman who works for them.Richard learns of Charles affair and is furious. With Charles betrayal hanging over his head, Richard stumbles upon young Ben and sees an opportunity.

Young Ben grows up with both the Dharma and the Others, while Charles, still deviding his time between Dharma and the Others, finds out his Dharma lady is pregnant. Charles knows that women cannot have children on the island, so he decides to leave with her, (either by the sub, or the Others "secret way" like Richard mentioned last episode) and return once the baby is born.

But Ben and Richard have other plans. When Charles is gone, the island is moved by the Polar Bear, and shortly there after, the purg happens. Charles can never return to the island.

Charles, trapped out in the real world, uses his contacts within Dharma to begin to build his empire, all the while searching for the island. Over the years he tried many things. Most notable being a hot air balloon, guided by a man named Henry Gale, having spies watch ex Dharma workers such as Leonard in a mental ward hoping they might spill any info, and finally a sailing race around the world.
What better way to quietly find your target then to hide it behind a sporting event? To his luck, Desmond has decided to"win his honor back"andis training for the race himself. Enter said spy again to provide him with a boat. Its like killing two birds with one stone. Or so he hopes.

*will finish in the morning....feel free to comment
:rolleyes: I need all the help I can get.

[WickedSlip]

Im currently working on a revised version of my Charles Widmore theory, due to recent events.
Im thinking that Widmore was born on the island or atleast brought at an extremely young age. He was chosen to be the leader of the others by Richard. But it was Lockes meeting with Richard that actually changed that, though Charles will eventually come to blame Ben.

Im thinking that when Dharma comes to the island, Charles in intregued, but not willing to risk losing his position with Richard. Like Ethan, and Goodwin after him, Charles plants himself inside Dharma. (Hense why he knows all the protocols, and knows who Ben is) But rather than doing his job and distroying Dharma, Charles falls in love with a woman who works for them.Richard learns of Charles affair and is furious. With Charles betrayal hanging over his head, Richard stumbles upon young Ben and sees an opportunity.

Young Ben grows up with both the Dharma and the Others, while Charles, still deviding his time between Dharma and the Others, finds out his Dharma lady is pregnant. Charles knows that women cannot have children on the island, so he decides to leave with her, (either by the sub, or the Others "secret way" like Richard mentioned last episode) and return once the baby is born.

But Ben and Richard have other plans. When Charles is gone, the island is moved by the Polar Bear, and shortly there after, the purg happens. Charles can never return to the island.

Charles, trapped out in the real world, uses his contacts within Dharma to begin to build his empire, all the while searching for the island. Over the years he tried many things. Most notable being a hot air balloon, guided by a man named Henry Gale, having spies watch ex Dharma workers such as Leonard in a mental ward hoping they might spill any info, and finally a sailing race around the world.
What better way to quietly find your target then to hide it behind a sporting event? To his luck, Desmond has decided to"win his honor back"andis training for the race himself. Enter said spy again to provide him with a boat. Its like killing two birds with one stone. Or so he hopes.

*will finish in the morning....feel free to comment
:rolleyes: I need all the help I can get.

(i'm trying to wrap my head around the changes you're making here, so bear with me, ok?)

your prior theory, "crown prince of dharma", (summararily) stated that widmore went off island intermittantly while acting as Island The Chosen One and started Dharma, in collaboration with hanso, in an effort to reap financial benefit from the island. then, while he was off-island, ben moved the island via polar bear and literally stole it from him.

the revised portion here (particularly that part that i highlighted) states that he is living as Chosen One on Island when Dharma comes along and instead of destroying them, he infiltrates them secret spy like, falls in love with someone and leaves the island with her. then ben and richard conspire to move the island via polar bear.

so, in the revised portion, you retract the claim that widmore co-created dharma?

am i understanding that correctly?

(for the record, i like the first theory better :))

sidenote: goodwin and ethan were planted in dharma?

random questions: is penny is love child of he and dharma chick? or does penny have another offisland momma and widmore is a playa? how old is penny? where does that fit into a timeline with the revised theory events?

[AVREY97]

Im just fiddling around with it right now. I made the change because we now know that Charles was once on the Island, as a member of the Others. I went with infiltrating merely because that seems to be a habit of the Others, so I was just going along with the pattern.

No, Goodwin and Ethan did not infiltrate Dharma, they infiltrated the Losties, remember? I guess I should have worded that a bit more clearly.

As for me retracting, I guess I kind of am. I like my original better as well, so who knows, by the end of the day, I just might end up deleting this because Im just thinking waaaaay too far beyond what i should be.:rolleyes:

[AprilisLost]

Charles, trapped out in the real world, uses his contacts within Dharma to begin to build his empire, all the while searching for the island. Over the years he tried many things. Most notable being a hot air balloon, guided by a man named Henry Gale, having spies watch ex Dharma workers such as Leonard in a mental ward hoping they might spill any info, and finally a sailing race around the world.
What better way to quietly find your target then to hide it behind a sporting event? To his luck, Desmond has decided to"win his honor back"andis training for the race himself. Enter said spy again to provide him with a boat. Its like killing two birds with one stone. Or so he hopes.

*will finish in the morning....feel free to comment
:rolleyes: I need all the help I can get.

Avery, don't forget Libby in this part. He must have hired her as well. She too was in the mental institution, and she's the one who gave Des the boat (or was it just the money, I can't remember right now) for the around the world race. She would fit nicely as a Widmore plant according to this theory.

[Viva]

She did give Des the Boat. It was her husband's boat. Are we sure she was even on the plane? *snicker

[AVREY97]

Avery, don't forget Libby in this part. He must have hired her as well. She too was in the mental institution, and she's the one who gave Des the boat (or was it just the money, I can't remember right now) for the around the world race. She would fit nicely as a Widmore plant according to this theory.

Thats actually who I was referring to.
She was spying on Leonard and Hurley in the mental hospital, and gave Desmond the boat to insure for Charles that Desmond entered the race.

[WickedSlip]

Im just fiddling around with it right now. I made the change because we now know that Charles was once on the Island, as a member of the Others. I went with infiltrating merely because that seems to be a habit of the Others, so I was just going along with the pattern.

No, Goodwin and Ethan did not infiltrate Dharma, they infiltrated the Losties, remember? I guess I should have worded that a bit more clearly.

As for me retracting, I guess I kind of am. I like my original better as well, so who knows, by the end of the day, I just might end up deleting this because Im just thinking waaaaay too far beyond what i should be.:rolleyes:


well, your original theory accounts for him being on the island, too. i like it better because it's less complicated.

i like less complicated.

maybe there's a way to marry the two ideas?

[AVREY97]

well, your original theory accounts for him being on the island, too. i like it better because it's less complicated.

i like less complicated.

maybe there's a way to marry the two ideas?

Thats pretty much what Im trying to do atm. I have them both printed up and mix and matching.

[jimpbblmk]

I don't have screencaps or any solid proof of any kind to back this up, but my brain seems to be thinking that young Widmore resembles Karl.

[AVREY97]

I don't have screencaps or any solid proof of any kind to back this up, but my brain seems to be thinking that young Widmore resembles Karl.

hmmm...I guess, but I wouldn't quite say exactly. I'd love for that sort of Romeo and Juliet storyline though, but Im thinking the timeline doesn't quite add up, since Karl is clearly not over twenty (that would be kind of weird, having an older man with Alex), and Charles has been off the island for 20 years at the least.But you can be the judge:

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/avrey97/normal_jughead-419.jpg
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/avrey97/normal_4x02-cap-264.jpg

[Viva]

At this rate we'll be comparing screen caps of Locke to Jack and claiming they are the same person too.

lol

I'm not saying the two could not be brothers (in RL) but let's not get too carried away comparing who looks like who.

On a similar note, it is weird that everyone seems to have a twin.

Karl and Wid
jack and the portuguese guy
Sawyer and that camera man
Ellie and half the women on the show
Juliet and whoever "her" is that some other said she looked like
thomas and Ben

oh my great balls of fire! Remember that book "bad twin"???

I think it's a clue. I just solved LOST.

you're welcome!

of course I am kidding, but this was the completely deranged response I had in my head when i saw the comparison of Karl and Wid.

my head is spinning...why ARE there so many look alikes?? ?? ?? ?? ??
:eek::D:confused:

[carrie3570]

Bloodlines... I still think this is what it's about. I just finished watching the first disc of season 3. When Kate, Jack, and Sawyer are taken - they all have band-aids on. The Others took blood. I'm not saying they are all related to each other, but there could be 2 or 3 bloodlines they are looking for to lead the Island - or something like that.

[Lo$tto]

Bloodlines... I still think this is what it's about. I just finished watching the first disc of season 3. When Kate, Jack, and Sawyer are taken - they all have band-aids on. The Others took blood. I'm not saying they are all related to each other, but there could be 2 or 3 bloodlines they are looking for to lead the Island - or something like that.

Carolingians vs. Merovingians?


Charles-Charlie-Charlotte-Karl-Carlyle-Bernard-etc

vs.

Ben-David-Jacob-Jack-John-James-Daniel-Reyes-Cortez-etc


Kate = Cathars?
Rose = Rosicrucians?
Sayid = Muhammad (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Sayid)
Richard/Temple = R. Lionheart/Templars?

Jin/Sun = ? [note: I found that Paik and Pace share the same origin]

[Viva]

Alright, in the question of who is lying. Ben or Widmore...

I am thinking that it is Ben. When has Widmore ever lied? About anything? I am asking this honestly because I can't think of a lie he has told, but my memory ain't what it used to be.

Then we have Ben. His whole introduction to us was a lie. He is a liar. Not all of the time, but enough to lose trust. We also know he is a first class manipulator of people. WHy should we believe him?

I am just saying that I think that Wid might turn out to be the good guy here, even though he was set up in an unflattering light at our intro to his character. Now that we know that Wid just wants to keep Pen safe, it explains why he tried to put Des off so much.