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Poopaphone
08-01-2007, 09:26 AM
Benjamin Linus: "Let me put it so you'll understand. Picture a box. You know something about boxes, don't you John? What if I told you that, somewhere on this island, there is a very large box and whatever you imagined, whatever you wanted to be in it when you opened that box, there it would be? What would you say about that, John?"


That line grabbed us all right? Was it science, magic, spiritual? What makes the metaphoric box work. For this discussion, I'm assuming that: box=island. Not a particular place on the island, but the island itself.

What causes things to appear on the island that you desire to be there?

Well looking back on the strange events that connected all the Losties together, the strange twists of fate that delivered them to the island, I deduced the now infamous Stand Theory (it's around here somewhere). However, recently I stumbled on something, that I'm sure all of you have heard of, that made much more sense to Lost world events (and much more sense that it makes in the real world -no not the MTV show.

The Secret.

Yes that hypermarketed collection of new age philosophies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_%282006_film%29

The secret is powered by "The 'Law' of Attraction".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Attraction

Here's a brief description:

It states people experience the corresponding manifestations of their predominant thoughts, feelings, words, and actions and that people therefore have direct control over reality and their lives through thought alone. A person's thoughts (conscious and unconscious), emotions, beliefs and actions are said to attract corresponding positive and negative experiences "through the resonance of their energetic vibration." [1] The "law of attraction" states "you get what you think about; your thoughts determine your experience."[2] Many proponents of the idea claim that with practice a person can use the law of attraction to change their lives.

What if the island, through it's natural vibration or other geophysical properties, acts like a big magnent. Those 'in tune' with the island can pull things to them that they need and desire.

Ben says, "Two days after I found out I had a fatal tumor on my spine, a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky. And if that's not proof of God, I don't know what is."

The first principle of "The 'Law' of Attraction":

Know what one desires and ask the universe for it. (The "universe" is mentioned broadly, stating that it can be anything from God to an unknown source of energy.)

What about all the other people on the plane? Aren't many of them connected as like personalities? Aren't many of them like personalities to Ben? Father issues, acceptance issues, criminal intents at time, bold, calculating? Was Ben, in his desire to have his surgery able to set about events, passively by just desire, that pulled a plane out of the sky that included Jack and others that shared his personalities and traits?

Was Richard and crew able to use Juliette's deep seeded desire to be free of her ex husband, relate it those on the island, and actually have it done through the mysteries of the universe? That's something that always bothered me. I assumed they either hijacked a bus, or paid someone, but there would have been evidence. Unless it was truely an 'accident' that they were able to set in place by simply wishing hard enough that it happen.

It the case of dead people, can the island make you believe that they are there, by harnessing your subconscious and showing you what you really desire to see?

Can charlie want his guitar so badly that locke is able to find it and show it to him. Can claire want peanut butter so badly that they stumble upon the hatch? Can hurley want Libby enough that she actually is willing to?

Knowing that time is a huge element to the show, can these desires effect events retroactively? Can desmond want to be with Penny so badly that he can alter the events that put him on the island, until others (maybe 'others') convince him to change his path? Can Jack's future desire to return to the island change the events that got him off (get your mind out of the gutter) in the first place?

I'm sure I'm missing a ton of opportunities to apply this theory, and will rewatch seasons 1 and 2 with this in mind.

As always, I'm not claiming to be right, but rather, trying to find a concept that works with events we've seen, that can be applied to what we see in the future.


(and yes, I have no idea where smokey fits in this paradigm, he still works great in the Stand Theory; unless I combine the two...hmmm)

p.s. wow post 700 is a dousey...

carrie3570
08-01-2007, 10:19 AM
From the time Ben spoke about a box I thought the box was the island. That's why we see Kates horse, Jacks dad, etc.

On the secret.. ummm.. not sure how I feel about that.

As far as Juliets hubby getting hit by a bus, well.. I don't even know what to think about that. Maybe Richard used mind control for him to step in the street when the bus was coming? I dunno.. I kinda chalk that one up to be careful what you wish for.

So, in this theory are you saying Ben (or other people on the island) wanted these people so bad that the plane fell from the sky? And the ones dying are the ones that weren't suppose to be in the box?

ex: Charlie - he has had multiple incidents on the island, not dying.. but Desmond says he is suppose too. - This is because Charlie was never meant to be in the box?

Now about Charlies guitar, I think Locke wanted it so he could use it to help Charlie, so it would be Locke not Charlie that willed it, however, the guitar was on the plane already we saw that in a flashback, so really I think John saw it and used it.. he really never had to will it to be there.

Knotty.Girl
08-01-2007, 10:31 AM
Poops, your post has made me think about the island giving things - and how it takes them away.

Hurley wanted Libby so bad she would possibly say 'yes' - and then she died.

Claire wanted peanut butter - Hatch and all the food was destroyed (granted I think a food drop happened after that, but...uh...yeah)

Charlie wanted his guitar and heroin - well, he is dead now, so that doesn't really matter.

Sawyer wanted Cooper for revenge - Cooper was killed, but I am not sure about the island taking him away. maybe something else will be taken later?

Locke being able to walk (then not being able to) - and being able to get out of that bone pit - something to be taken later?

That the box, no matter what it is, can give what you want, but wants something back in return? That could be why Ben was not healed. He has taken from the island without returning something so it did not heal him?

Am I rambling too far off your original thought? Sorry if I am!

carrie3570
08-01-2007, 10:53 AM
That the box, no matter what it is, can give what you want, but wants something back in return?

John Locke: Boone was a sacrifice the island demanded

That quote comes to mind when I read that.

WickedSlip
08-01-2007, 11:20 AM
John Locke: Boone was a sacrifice the island demanded

That quote comes to mind when I read that.

ok, then that begs the question: in exchange for what? or are we not thinking it's direct exchange?

carrie3570
08-01-2007, 11:27 AM
ok, then that begs the question: in exchange for what? or are we not thinking it's direct exchange?

Well, Lockes legs were giving out & then after the island got the sacrifice Locke could walk again. So, yes.. Boone was sacrificed so Locke could continue to walk.

WickedSlip
08-01-2007, 11:32 AM
Well, Lockes legs were giving out & then after the island got the sacrifice Locke could walk again. So, yes.. Boone was sacrificed so Locke could continue to walk.


i like that; the idea of it being a direct exchange.

"Can Jack's future desire to return to the island change the events that got him off (get your mind out of the gutter) in the first place?"

dude, my mind's been in the gutter since i read your thread title....

seriously, tho....that's a tall order (to get off the island) that would create some serious debt. what was the exchange for that i wonder....

AVREY97
08-01-2007, 11:46 AM
OOOH!!! I recently read the Secret as well Poop and the Lost Box, or i would even go as far as saying The island kept popping into my mind. I totally think you're on to something here. It may not be the be all and end all, but I like it a lot!!

Well, Lockes legs were giving out & then after the island got the sacrifice Locke could walk again. So, yes.. Boone was sacrificed so Locke could continue to walk.

This Im not so much in agreement with. Locke regained the use of his legs long before Boone died. But something DID happen when he did, around the same time that Boone died, Locke was banging on the Hatch door, asking it why it was doing this to him. Desmonds light suddenly went on, showing Locke that his quest and Boones death were not in vein.

Darkhorse
08-01-2007, 12:03 PM
Wow! OUt of all the ideas out there, this one makes the most sense to me.

I think the 'exchange' element is there, but what interest me most is the struggle and conflict the desires of each person brings about. Taking a look at Ben and Locke . . . they are in a competition over leadership. If you think about what Poop is proposing, then it really comes down to who wants/desires it the most. And it would be the same for everyone else on the island, causing a lot of random things to happen, whether good or bad, as things 'bend' to the will and desire of the strongest 'attractor'.

This would certainly explain why people get what they mention . . . example: Sawyer and glasses, Charlie and his guitar, etc..

I like this a lot. Very, very interesting.

WickedSlip
08-01-2007, 12:06 PM
could you subconciously be choosing the payment as well as the reward?

maybe that's the crux. you have to determine the debt. so locke was granted the hatch, but he had to choose what he gave in exchange.

Poopaphone
08-01-2007, 01:20 PM
Wow! OUt of all the ideas out there, this one makes the most sense to me.

I think the 'exchange' element is there, but what interest me most is the struggle and conflict the desires of each person brings about. Taking a look at Ben and Locke . . . they are in a competition over leadership. If you think about what Poop is proposing, then it really comes down to who wants/desires it the most. And it would be the same for everyone else on the island, causing a lot of random things to happen, whether good or bad, as things 'bend' to the will and desire of the strongest 'attractor'.

This would certainly explain why people get what they mention . . . example: Sawyer and glasses, Charlie and his guitar, etc..

I like this a lot. Very, very interesting.

Hey dark.

That's something I thought of, but ommitted from my post by accident. That there is conflict in things desired most and by those most in tune with the island.

thanks for bringing that up, and better than I would have.

Poopaphone
08-01-2007, 01:27 PM
could you subconciously be choosing the payment as well as the reward?

maybe that's the crux. you have to determine the debt. so locke was granted the hatch, but he had to choose what he gave in exchange.

Well the idea of exchange is something that was developed in this thread, but as far as what I proposed, and the philosophy behind it, payment isn't part of the equation. It's manipulating your thoughts to recieve your desires. There's no discussion of payment.

However, I think it's a topic worth discussing, the possibility of payment/punishment for what you desire. With this thread, I was just trying to explain how the box gets filled.

snicker...

fishhead202
08-01-2007, 02:37 PM
Locke even acknowledges that Boone was taken by the island in return for finding the hatch. While this may or may not be true, Locke seems to believe that it is.

Personally, I'm not sold that the island itself is sentient. I think it's more of a tool allowing all of these strange things to occur. It allows things to be brought/created according to what the people want. Benry and the others seem to have such a reverence for Jacob that the obvious answer would be that he is the one who uses the island to make all these wonderful little tricks happen. But, being this show, I could almost cross that out because it is the obvious answer :)

The other recurring theme that might tie to this is redemption. Our heroes are a troubled lot, and they each are undergoing their own process of facing their pasts. If the island responds to the inner workings of the people on it, there could be a connection to how a person faces their past and if the island accepts them and provides for them. (Remember Eko, and his refusal to accept his actions as anything other than doing what was needed to survive? Island didn't seem to like that so much....)

Interesting thread :)

--Fish

Poopaphone
08-01-2007, 03:20 PM
Personally, I'm not sold that the island itself is sentient. I think it's more of a tool allowing all of these strange things to occur. It allows things to be brought/created according to what the people want.

That's exactly what was being suggested in my post. Perhaps I didn't phrase it clearly.

As far as redemption, it's most definitely a theme; and a theme I think fits well in this paradigm. The island for the losties is the same as the hypothetical "what would you do if you were a billionaire". They've been pulled from their regular lives, and given the opportunity to make their wants, needs, and desires reality, beyond the simple money, good job, lots of friends BS. Redemption would definitely be one of those deep seeded desires. Or acceptence, forgiveness, love, yadda yadda yadda...

What would you truely want to change about or have in your life, if you could suddenly start over - without the worries of money, work, or family obligations? Would you change your past? Would you live in the moment? It's a great question.

fishhead202
08-02-2007, 08:53 AM
That's exactly what was being suggested in my post. Perhaps I didn't phrase it clearly.

As far as redemption, it's most definitely a theme; and a theme I think fits well in this paradigm. The island for the losties is the same as the hypothetical "what would you do if you were a billionaire". They've been pulled from their regular lives, and given the opportunity to make their wants, needs, and desires reality, beyond the simple money, good job, lots of friends BS. Redemption would definitely be one of those deep seeded desires. Or acceptence, forgiveness, love, yadda yadda yadda...

What would you truely want to change about or have in your life, if you could suddenly start over - without the worries of money, work, or family obligations? Would you change your past? Would you live in the moment? It's a great question.

Sorry, I meant that I think a 3rd party is controlling some of this. ie. Ben is using the island to bring Cooper there. That's what I meant by a tool. But going back and re-reading, you're convincing me more that people there might be able to use the island without realising it, through all those things you've suggested.

We've seen smokie doing something that seems to be like mind reading thing too......

--fish

Lancet
08-02-2007, 03:52 PM
Well, Lockes legs were giving out & then after the island got the sacrifice Locke could walk again. So, yes.. Boone was sacrificed so Locke could continue to walk.

Yes I believe that is true,but I think its something alot deeper then that,Locke is just being conned like hes been conned before. On the episode Locke lured Boone to the plane in Deus Ex Machina, his flashback was explaining how hes been conned by his father,and at the end when hes yelling at the island saying: "I've done everything you wanted me to do,So why did you do this to me!?" It was almost as if he was talking to his father in some way.

The Island granted Locke what he wanted more than anything in the world,to walk again,now that he can walk again he is desperate to keep it like that. The Island is using locke as a puppet to carry out its wishes,Locke cannot walk on his own,he needs the island to help him. If the island wants him to do something,it threatans to take away what Locke has wanted most for the past 4 years,therefore Locke must accomplish it unless he wants to lose his ability to walk once again.

Its sort of like the island is saying "if you do not do everything i want you to do I will take away the use of your legs,and you will be useless.