Who is Jacob?!

[Knotty.Girl]

Who is Jacob? And why does Shepard not being on his list matter??!

Could this be HIM?!!

[Poopaphone]

Who is Jacob? And why does Shepard not being on his list matter??!

Could this be HIM?!!

Jacob Marley, he was Scrooge's business partner.

And he has a ladder.

[ChloeX]

I Know! So does that mean Jack Shepherd or Christian Shepherd?

It makes me think that Jacob is "Him" and that Ben is "Vice Him" and that Ben added Jack for his own well being.

[Uncle Pasto]

Was it Jacob's list or Jacobs' list? If Sheppard wasn't on the list then why is he there (besides to operate on Ben)?

[AVREY97]

Then who was on the original list?

Could Jacobs possibly be Ethan? Im sure he was making a list.

[ChloeX]

Could Jacobs possibly be Ethan? Im sure he was making a list.
ah, good question. Maybe Ethan is Ethan Jacob.

[losty09]

It makes me think that Jacob is "Him" and that Ben is "Vice Him" and that Ben added Jack for his own well being.

that's what i think.

[Agent Smith]

Could Jacobs possibly be Ethan? Im sure he was making a list.Was he making a list? I remember Ben telling Goodwin to make a list, but did he tell Ethan?

[Candy]

I think Jacobs was making a list and Ben was checking it twice.

you know, trying to figure out who's Naughty or Nice.

[AVREY97]

I would imagine that he was speaking to both of them about the lists. Why make a list for one side but not the other?

[Agent Smith]

I would imagine that he was speaking to both of them about the lists. Why make a list for one side but not the other?Maybe because Ethan is illiterate? He wasn't part of the book club.

[SunSpot]

Ben said "I want lists in 2 days" something like that but it was plural meaning both goodwin and ethan.

It sure makes it seem Ben isnt the top Dawg.

[Poopaphone]

I think the LIST is the List that Klugh gave Hurley, not the one compiled back then.

[alarose20]

I think the LIST is the List that Klugh gave Hurley, not the one compiled back then.
when did Klugh give Hurley a list?

[Candy]

He means the one she gave mIke

[SunSpot]

Klugh's list included Jack.... thats why they are captured.

[Skirtz]

It makes me think that Jacob is "Him" and that Ben is "Vice Him" and that Ben added Jack for his own well being.

Ditto and this message is too short.

[Darkhorse]

Who is Jacob? And why does Shepard not being on his list matter??!

Could this be HIM?!!

Jacob is Ben's Dad:eek:

[Samhain]

We know of no MASTER list for the entire plane.

We didn't see Ben say, "here, Ethan and Goodwin, take this big list and find out who is still alive and in which section of the plane."

Therefore, Jacob is Ethan, since Ethan was in charge of making THE list for the fuselage.

[Candy]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I think Jacobs is someone over Ben. Someone higher up the ladder. The list he makes gets passed down and Ben made a slight adjustment to it.

Jacobs
Ben
Klugh

[Samhain]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I think Jacobs is someone over Ben. Someone higher up the ladder. The list he makes gets passed down and Ben made a slight adjustment to it.

Jacobs
Ben
Klugh

So, Jacobs wants Kate and Sawyer then? They are the only two others on the list that Klugh had. That makes absolutely no sense.

Kate and Sawyer were brought to force Jack to work. So, if Jack wasn't on the list, then why were Kate and sawyer?

[AVREY97]

Im thinking Klughs list was made up entirely for Bens benefit. Who was on the original list is what Im very curious to find out.

[Samhain]

I agree avrey, which is why I think that there is nothing more to it than Ethan is Ethan Jacobs.

To be perfectly honest, and please don't take this as a personal attack.

Trying to say that Jacob is a big revealing point in the great scheme of things is because this episode was very very bad. Since we got very little of any character development outside of what we already knew, any little bit of info is going to be blown up to be a big deal, just to satisfy our desire for real information.

Just my opinion.

[Darkhorse]

I agree Samhain. We didn't get any answers, really. We just got more questions, the main one being who is Jacob?

This episode was entertaining, but I was let down. Personally, I thought all the Kate flashbacks were boring.

[D'zle]

I have to disagree as well Sam. I don't see Ethan being an authority figure. At least not to the degree that would scare the two chronies. And why not call him ethan. Ben even calls him Ethan. Unless Jacob is the full name of someone called Jake? Have there been any Jakes mentioned in the show?

I agree Samhain. We didn't get any answers, really. We just got more questions, the main one being who is Jacob?

This episode was entertaining, but I was let down. Personally, I thought all the Kate flashbacks were boring.


I agree DH. Wasn't too much plot development. All filler and no killer. The second half had better start off with a bang.

[AVREY97]

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode!!! I too found it entertaining, and I wasn't expecting ANY answers whatsoever, Im expecting those answers to come in Feb. If they gave them to us now, would we be as keen to tune in when it returns? Sure, WE would, but would everyone else? That whole episodes sole purpose was to be a 43 minute filler to bring us to the final two minutes, thats where they hooked us. Or atleast me...:D

And by the way, according to the front page a few weeks ago Ethan is supposed to be returning via flashbackso we may get some answers there.

[Uncle Pasto]

I just can't see how it is possible that Ethan is Jacob(s). In my eyes Jacob is a new character that we have yet to meet. Maybe someone not on the island but in a big office building on the mainland?

[The Magician]

Goodwin made a list which they used to thin out the Tailies. Not sure if Ethan made a list, but we assume he must have. Then Klugh had a list she gave to Michael.

The Others are list-happy, so whoever Jacob is, and what his list was about, I don't think we can necessarily extrapolate that it had anything to do specifically with any of the previous lists we've seen.

Jacob's list may well be one we've yet to know anything more about than it's a list by Jacob.

And if Ethan is HIM, why is HIM working on Juliet's plumbing? I don't think so.

Nooo, Patchy is Jacob.

[D'zle]

If they gave them to us now, would we be as keen to tune in when it returns?


I would think so....if they did it right that is. They should have ended on a big mind blow. Something that will make you go NO F'ING WAY :eek:

[Poopaphone]

Klugh's list included Jack.... thats why they are captured.

I know.

I'm saying they added Jack to the list, since Ben need spinal surgery.


Think about that list. 4 People, they send one person home, Jack was an addition for Ben's sake, you're left with Kate and Sawyer. The only true criminals on the island.

[The Magician]

So why do they want criminals?

[AVREY97]

Why would they want criminals? According to Goodwin they only wanted the "good" people and children from the otherside, and the only people they tried to take before were Walt and Aaron. So why take the criminals from the otherside, And not Ana and Eko?

[ChloeX]

Maybe the completed lists from Ethan and Goodwin were given to Jacob, then Jacob handed back a list of who he wanted, and that list did not include Jack. Ben added Jack for his own reasons.

[Poopaphone]

So why do they want criminals?


Who the hell knows.

But when that list first appeared, it didn't make any sense. Those people had nothing in common, no assumptions could be made as to why this particular group was picked. Why Jack, but not John. Why Hurley? ect...

We know they didn't actually want Hurley (Maybe they just wanted to slow the group down?), Jack would have been added for Ben's sake. Now we are left with two. These two are definitely have things in common. Criminals, Lovers.

This group makes a LOT more sense than the original party. I'm not claiming to know what their purpose is, but we at least have something to go on now.

[AVREY97]

Thats what I think Chloe, I think Klughs list of people was very seperate from "jacobs list". Klughs list was purely for Ben alone.

[D'zle]

What if this list has nothing at all to do with the lists from Goodwin and Ethan. We know they do infact have contact with the outside world. Once the others found out what happend with the flight, Ben could have reported to HIM (possibly Jacob) about the plane crash. It is possible to get hold of the flight manifest from the airlines, so then with ethans and goodwins list of survivors HIM could have gathered info on what people out of the survivors he wanted to take. As for why taking criminals....maybe that's the type of people they look for to condition to be part of their group. People who will kill when needed, people who aren't affraid to do wrong when needed to. I believe Kate and Sawyer were the only ones who have an actual public record of their murder crimes.

[Poopaphone]

Thats what I think Chloe, I think Klughs list of people was very seperate from "jacobs list". Klughs list was purely for Ben alone.

When Picky said the line I took it as "He's not even supposed to be here". It's an assumption on my part, but it seems to fit. They K&S are living in cages and doing hard labor. Sounds like a prision to me. Who lives in prisions? Criminals. What are Kate and Sawyer?

[AVREY97]

Again though Poop, if thats the case, why didn't they take Eko and Ana? In my eyes, those two were far worse criminals then Kate and Sawyer. Especially Eko.

[D'zle]

Again though Poop, if thats the case, why didn't they take Eko and Ana? In my eyes, those two were far worse criminals then Kate and Sawyer. Especially Eko.


Their crimes were never publicly known or documented.

[Uncle Pasto]

So what were Pickett and the other guy talking about right before he said Sheppard wasn't on Jacobs list? Maybe that will help us.

[WickedSlip]

my $.02...
ethan and goodwin were supposed to retrieve full passenger list. that list was whittled down to (i think) 9 or so. i'm sure someone with a clearer memory can recall where ethan/goodwin was in possession of a list of a handful.

and it is THAT list that shepard was not on. of course, that is assuming that jacob isn't ethan.

just sayin.

/me goes back to munchin dog

[Poopaphone]

Why would they want criminals? According to Goodwin they only wanted the "good" people and children from the otherside, and the only people they tried to take before were Walt and Aaron. So why take the criminals from the otherside, And not Ana and Eko?


If you read into Darkhorse's theory, each island is a seperate tribe. Ben himself calls his island Alcatraz.

It seems to me that the kids, Klugh and that group of others is still on the main island. Ben and his group are running Alcatraz, at least for the time being.

Their homes were all on the main island, unless they can run across water. So they are specifically on this island, with criminals for some reason. "The next 2 weeks will be very unpleasant for you." Maybe there's a trial coming?

[Knotty.Girl]

When Ben was captured, he told Locke "I am here for you" right? But then he learned Jack was a doctor. Maybe he needed Locke in the beginning because Jacob wanted him (this might flow into Darkhorses theory in the Lost Talk section - if they wanted Locke because he is Ben's brother or something - but that's a discussion for that thread) and Ben could have taken off Locke's name and put Jack's on it when he came back to the camp.


Actually, now that I think about it, that doesn't quite work does it? Cause they sent Michael back WITH the list, and Michael let Ben go, so Ben couldn't change the list like that. Ok, so I have no idea what i am talking about.

[alarose20]

Ok... here goes... JoeDharma and I are currently talking about this off in internet land... and here's what he reminded me that no one including myself has yet to mention.

Ethan never had a list.

Back in Maternity Leave, Tom chastises Ethan for not haveing a list, saying that "he will be very upset" with Ethan for not getting a list. So, that means that this Jacobs person is the one who got the list back to the Others... which means that Jacob(s) is still with the losties... an Other still resides with them...


Paolo

[AVREY97]

Whoaaaaaa...........you guys are goood!!!!!
But who could it be????

[Darkhorse]

So, there is a mole in Lostyworld. Wow. Great disection and find guys!

[Uncle Pasto]

I whoelheartedly agree that Ethan is not Jacob but how do we know that Jacob isn't someone located on the mainland as I have stated previously? He or she doesn't necessarily need to be on the island to have a list. We don't even know when the list was generated.

[D'zle]

I whoelheartedly agree that Ethan is not Jacob but how do we know that Jacob isn't someone located on the mainland as I have stated previously? He or she doesn't necessarily need to be on the island to have a list. We don't even know when the list was generated.


The list could be the manifest that they got hold of from the real world. THen used the lists of survivors to determine who is left and find out background info on them

[AVREY97]

Ok... here goes... JoeDharma and I are currently talking about this off in internet land... and here's what he reminded me that no one including myself has yet to mention.

Ethan never had a list.

Back in Maternity Leave, Tom chastises Ethan for not haveing a list, saying that "he will be very upset" with Ethan for not getting a list. So, that means that this Jacobs person is the one who got the list back to the Others... which means that Jacob(s) is still with the losties... an Other still resides with them...


Paolo
I absolutely love this theory, the only hole I can find in it, is that Ethan was caught because he wasn't on the manifest, wouldn't the other person have been caught as well. I would think they'd be extra cautious in finding out who everyone was after that so a new person out of no where would be easy to spot. But again, I loooove it!!

[alarose20]

I absolutely love this theory, the only hole I can find in it, is that Ethan was caught because he wasn't on the manifest, wouldn't the other person have been caught as well. I would think they'd be extra cautious in finding out who everyone was after that so a new person out of no where would be easy to spot. But again, I loooove it!!
my co-worker and good friend ButtonPusher had this to say back when Nikki and Paolo first were introduced... looks to possibly answer your question..
http://www.stationzer0.com/lost-forums/showpost.php?p=21169&postcount=92

[AVREY97]

heres the convo between Tom and Ethan in Maternity leave. I doubt its helpful, but I thought I would post it just to get it out there.
ETHAN: Go ahead, turn it on.

[Claire turns it on and it plays Catch a Falling Star.]

VOICE [from outside the room]: Ethan.

ETHAN: Wait here, I'll be right back.

CLAIRE: Okay.

VOICE: What the hell happened? You were supposed to make the list and then bring her in. Was I unclear?

ETHAN: It's not my fault. They knew I wasn't on the plane. They had a manifest.

[The voice is revealed as Mr. Friendly, without his beard and grubby clothes.]

MR. FRIENDLY: What am I supposed to tell him? You know what he's going to do when he finds out. Damn it, Ethan.

[Darkhorse]

my co-worker and good friend ButtonPusher had this to say back when Nikki and Paolo first were introduced... looks to possibly answer your question..
http://www.stationzer0.com/lost-forums/showpost.php?p=21169&postcount=92

That is amazing. I like this.

[alarose20]

That is amazing. I like this.
yea.. he posted that back when N & P first made their appearance.. he could have hit the nail on the head now with the mentionings of a Jacob, and Joe reminding me that Ethan never had a list.

[XMOZZAZX]

I knew that the introduction of those 2 was purposeful. Now I can see what it is. I love that theory. Nice!

[D'zle]

heres the convo between Tom and Ethan in Maternity leave. I doubt its helpful, but I thought I would post it just to get it out there.
ETHAN: Go ahead, turn it on.

[Claire turns it on and it plays Catch a Falling Star.]

VOICE [from outside the room]: Ethan.

ETHAN: Wait here, I'll be right back.

CLAIRE: Okay.

VOICE: What the hell happened? You were supposed to make the list and then bring her in. Was I unclear?

ETHAN: It's not my fault. They knew I wasn't on the plane. They had a manifest.

[The voice is revealed as Mr. Friendly, without his beard and grubby clothes.]

MR. FRIENDLY: What am I supposed to tell him? You know what he's going to do when he finds out. Damn it, Ethan.



After knowing what we know now, wouldn't we conclude the the Him Freindly is referring to is Ben? Ben told them to get lists without talking to a higher authority

[Poopaphone]

I'm having a VERY hard time believing THING 1 and THING 2 are anything more than warm boddies to combat the attrition of late.

Lots of deaths + limited amount of characters = the need to promote unseen characters.

We lost Libby, Anna, and Shannon. What the hell am I supposed to look at? Rose? Juliet isn't exactly breaking any hearts. There's a huge hole in the T&A factor. Hence THING 2.

THING 1 is Doc Artz and Boone rolled up into one. A character you tolerate, but who won't cause you any loss of sleep if they blow up or fall off a cliff. He's a red shirt, polar bear bait, smoke food...whatever. He's dead before the season's over.

For those of you who are theorizing as to whether THING 1 is a plant, answer this question. WHY WOULDN'T HE BREAK BEN OUT??? Your leader (maybe) is being tortured, and you are hanging out at the beach? You're telling me that you're a plant and you're not spending every moment shadowing Locke, Jack or Sayid?? Instead you complain to some eye candy that you're out of the loop??? I'd be first in line for Hatch duty, search parties, anything where I could gather intel.

Huge holes there guys. You're searching for meaning in two meaningless characters.

[alarose20]

After knowing what we know now, wouldn't we conclude the the Him Freindly is referring to is Ben? Ben told them to get lists without talking to a higher authority
I concur...

I'm having a VERY hard time believing THING 1 and THING 2 are anything more than warm boddies to combat the attrition of late.

Lots of deaths + limited amount of characters = the need to promote unseen characters.

We lost Libby, Anna, and Shannon. What the hell am I supposed to look at? Rose? Juliet isn't exactly breaking any hearts. There's a huge hole in the T&A factor. Hence THING 2.

THING 1 is Doc Artz and Boone rolled up into one. A character you tolerate, but who won't cause you any loss of sleep if they blow up or fall off a cliff. He's a red shirt, polar bear bait, smoke food...whatever. He's dead before the season's over.

For those of you who are theorizing as to whether THING 1 is a plant, answer this question. WHY WOULDN'T HE BREAK BEN OUT??? Your leader (maybe) is being tortured, and you are hanging out at the beach? You're telling me that you're a plant and you're not spending every moment shadowing Locke, Jack or Sayid?? Instead you complain to some eye candy that you're out of the loop??? I'd be first in line for Hatch duty, search parties, anything where I could gather intel.

Huge holes there guys. You're searching for meaning in two meaningless characters.
When did everyone learn that it was BEN or even Henry Gale that they had in the Hatch. Granted, I know Charlie keeps only secrets which involve him (stealing Sun) however, do we know that the rest of the beach knew that we had THE main guy from the others?

That being said, I still to this day think that Ben got himself caught on purpose... whether it be the age old saying "if you're gonna do the job right, do it yourself" or whatever... b/c I think it was stupid that him knowing he had a tumor he'd put himself in that position... but then what have you got to loose???

So, who's to say Paolo wasn't in the Hatch at some point... or had contact with the others and was told "Ben is in the hatch.. but he is working on a plan, so if you hear anything, don't go being a hero or anyting. Stay put, and play you role out"... Ben calls the shots... and if he got himsefl caught, he doesn't want Paolo charging in anywhere ...

I think we're gonna be bringing this one back up come Feb. WE'll just agree to disagree.

[ButtonPusher]

I second that notion. I think Ben is, at the very least the leader of this group of others, and that he is "him".

[WickedSlip]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVREY97
heres the convo between Tom and Ethan in Maternity leave. I doubt its helpful, but I thought I would post it just to get it out there.
ETHAN: Go ahead, turn it on.

[Claire turns it on and it plays Catch a Falling Star.]

VOICE [from outside the room]: Ethan.

ETHAN: Wait here, I'll be right back.

CLAIRE: Okay.

VOICE: What the hell happened? You were supposed to make the list and then bring her in. Was I unclear?

ETHAN: It's not my fault. They knew I wasn't on the plane. They had a manifest.

[The voice is revealed as Mr. Friendly, without his beard and grubby clothes.]

MR. FRIENDLY: What am I supposed to tell him? You know what he's going to do when he finds out. Damn it, Ethan.




After knowing what we know now, wouldn't we conclude the the Him Freindly is referring to is Ben? Ben told them to get lists without talking to a higher authority

one discrepancy....

ben told ethan to get lists, yes.

BUT, in the friendly//ethan dialog, friendly says "was i unclear"...so friendly gave ethan the orders to get a list and bring claire in. that leads me to believe that ben already had his list, for someone to know who claire was and for friendly to give additional orders about her specifically. ithink there are two lists at work here. (!)the one ben ordered to ethan directly and (2) the one friendly ordered to ethan directly

the question is, who then is the "him" that gave friendly the orders? it may not be ben.....

I'm having a VERY hard time believing THING 1 and THING 2 are anything more than warm boddies to combat the attrition of late.

Lots of deaths + limited amount of characters = the need to promote unseen characters.

We lost Libby, Anna, and Shannon. What the hell am I supposed to look at? Rose? Juliet isn't exactly breaking any hearts. There's a huge hole in the T&A factor. Hence THING 2.

THING 1 is Doc Artz and Boone rolled up into one. A character you tolerate, but who won't cause you any loss of sleep if they blow up or fall off a cliff. He's a red shirt, polar bear bait, smoke food...whatever. He's dead before the season's over.

For those of you who are theorizing as to whether THING 1 is a plant, answer this question. WHY WOULDN'T HE BREAK BEN OUT??? Your leader (maybe) is being tortured, and you are hanging out at the beach? You're telling me that you're a plant and you're not spending every moment shadowing Locke, Jack or Sayid?? Instead you complain to some eye candy that you're out of the loop??? I'd be first in line for Hatch duty, search parties, anything where I could gather intel.

Huge holes there guys. You're searching for meaning in two meaningless characters.

why would paolo have to blow his cover to rescue ben when the plan that played out worked equally to the others' advantage without destroying what work paolo might be doing?

personally, i don't think paolo is the mole. but i think there is one. if not more in the mix

[D'zle]

why would paolo have to blow his cover to rescue ben when the plan that played out worked equally to the others' advantage without destroying what work paolo might be doing?

personally, i don't think paolo is the mole. but i think there is one. if not more in the mix


Is it me, or has Sayid been acting really strange the past two episodes.

[ButtonPusher]

If Paulo may have been following the "standard other orders" of not getting involved. Maybe once the abduction was completed, he was too begin to interact with the losties. Thus though to realistically portray a lostie he complained about not being involved, as Doc Artz did.
I don't think, if Paulo is an other, that he is like his character now. Much how we saw a change in both Ethan and Ben when who they really were was revealed.

I'm certain that we will all have to wait till Feb before this one is decided. Till then, I will keep plugging holes as the evidence and relevant/logical speculation will allow me too.

[Poopaphone]

why would paolo have to blow his cover

Why would Paolo have to blow his (potential) cover at all? He could have pulled off the same thing Michael did, but days earlier.

[AVREY97]

hahahaha Dz. You're kidding though right?? We all know he was on the plane.

[Uncle Pasto]

Yeah, re-watching ep. 1 Ben clearly says I want lists in three days and he is looking at Ethan when he says this.

[WickedSlip]

Why would Paolo have to blow his (potential) cover at all? He could have pulled off the same thing Michael did, but days earlier.

after ethan was caught, the risk was too great. and (again, as i said before) the plan as it was worked more toward their advantage than having one of their own perform the task.

[D'zle]

hahahaha Dz. You're kidding though right?? We all know he was on the plane.


Yes and no...i do think sayid is hiding something.

[AVREY97]

Sayid has always had somewhat of a cold personality. He seems to be all business, all the time. The only person to bring him out of that was Shannon, and well, we know how that ended up. So now he's back to bitter torturous Sayid, whos probably pretty pissed right about now for not killing Benry when he had the chance.

[D'zle]

Sayid has always had somewhat of a cold personality. He seems to be all business, all the time. The only person to bring him out of that was Shannon, and well, we know how that ended up. So now he's back to bitter torturous Sayid, whos probably pretty pissed right about now for not killing Benry when he had the chance.


I don't know, i just get the feeling that since he came back from looking for jack kate and sawyer, he's been different. Starting with his genius plan to get the boat taken away. Maybe he saw something that hasn't been mentioned by the writers or his character. I think that one of the main characters is gonna end up being one of the moles. It wouldn't be lost style if they aren't. And right now for me Sayid is on the top of my list.

[digitalspector]

Im going with J.A.C.O.B.

acronym. Wouldn't it be fun, if smokie was jacob....

collecting 'thoughts' of good/bad people.
generating a computerized list.

AI. program. list.

that is fun.

[WickedSlip]

Im going with J.A.C.O.B.

acronym. Wouldn't it be fun, if smokie was jacob....

collecting 'thoughts' of good/bad people.
generating a computerized list.

AI. program. list.

that is fun.

YAY! (happynakeddance)

smokie=jacob....jacob=Him?

(/me sings.........if ever oh ever a wiz there was)

[Poopaphone]

after ethan was caught, the risk was too great. and (again, as i said before) the plan as it was worked more toward their advantage than having one of their own perform the task.


How did it work out to their advantage? Ben was obviously pissed that a deal was made for his release.

[WickedSlip]

How did it work out to their advantage? Ben was obviously pissed that a deal was made for his release.

it fractured the losties, knocked a couple of them off, didn't give away an potential moles or put their own in direct danger and umm, they got jack kate and sawyer out of the deal....if an other had released henry...how would they have acquired the three currently imprisoned?

he wasn't pissed that a deal was made, he was pissed about the specific deal that was made but reluctantly released walt because they got more than they needed.

[Poopaphone]

it fractured the losties, knocked a couple of them off, didn't give away an potential moles or put their own in direct danger and umm, they got jack kate and sawyer out of the deal....if an other had released henry...how would they have acquired the three currently imprisoned?

he wasn't pissed that a deal was made, he was pissed about the specific deal that was made but reluctantly released walt because they got more than they needed.

The still could have gotten all those things without Michael busting Ben out. "Michael, we got your boy, go get these people, bring them here, and we give you the boy back."

Why would they need Michael to pull the breakout, when Paolo could have done it days before, and still make it look like Ben escpaed. Wouldn't Paolo assist Michael or at least help clean up? It wouldln't matter if Michael knew he was a plant.

I don't know, it seems far less credible that Paolo is a plant, who's done nothing, especially in a time of crisis, then him being a red shirt that the writers had to promote becuase they're killing off people faster than a Texas Jury.

[WickedSlip]

The still could have gotten all those things without Michael busting Ben out. "Michael, we got your boy, go get these people, bring them here, and we give you the boy back."

Why would they need Michael to pull the breakout, when Paolo could have done it days before, and still make it look like Ben escpaed. Wouldn't Paolo assist Michael or at least help clean up? It wouldln't matter if Michael knew he was a plant.

I don't know, it seems far less credible that Paolo is a plant, who's done nothing, especially in a time of crisis, then him being a red shirt that the writers had to promote becuase they're killing off people faster than a Texas Jury.

because using micheal for the whole plan is easier than introducing other players and more variables. KISS, poop, remember?

(1) takes care of michael's presence/nuisance
(2) releases henry
(3) retrieves kate et al
(4) creates doubt in lostie camp

without making it more complicated.

on the paolo front.....didn't the whole henry gale situation teach us to not underestimate anyone? i don't think he's an other, but hapless Nimrod seems as good a cover as any.

[Poopaphone]

because using micheal for the whole plan is easier than introducing other players and more variables. KISS, poop, remember?

(1) takes care of michael's presence/nuisance
(2) releases henry
(3) retrieves kate et al
(4) creates doubt in lostie camp

without making it more complicated.

on the paolo front.....didn't the whole henry gale situation teach us to not underestimate anyone? i don't think he's an other, but hapless Nimrod seems as good a cover as any.


And take the chance that in the meantime the losties don't kill your leader who has a serious tumor on his spine?

I'm calling my plant.

[WickedSlip]

And take the chance that in the meantime the losties don't kill your leader who has a serious tumor on his spine?

I'm calling my plant.

henry handled sawyer pretty well with that (yum) riot baton.

call your plant? you do that. and while you're at it, explain to me how you are going to take care of michael and waaaaaaalt, retrieve kate et al and ensure that your plant is not discovered as ethan was.....with less risk of error than the michael route.

the mroe complicated a plan is, the more room there is for error.

[Poopaphone]

henry handled sawyer pretty well with that (yum) riot baton.

call your plant? you do that. and while you're at it, explain to me how you are going to take care of michael and waaaaaaalt, retrieve kate et al and ensure that your plant is not discovered as ethan was.....with less risk of error than the michael route.

the mroe complicated a plan is, the more room there is for error.


Then at least have Paolo "stumble" upon the hostage situation so that he can be in the loop and make sure they aren't going to kill him. That doesn't compromise him and it lends a hand to Michael if the situation goes bad.

KISS, poop, remember?


Someone use a KISS approach to prove it to me the highly unlikely scenario that Paolo is a plant, and I'll buy it.

Karl is still a plant too right? What happened to all those theories?

[WickedSlip]

Someone use a KISS approach to prove it to me the highly unlikely scenario that Paolo is a plant, and I'll buy it.

Karl is still a plant too right? What happened to all those theories?

ok, i'll do that, when you answer all my questions from (4?) posts ago and defend your own argument rather than argue against someone else.:D in ohter words...why he is not a plant

[digitalspector]

wait... so jacob is smokie, and a plant...
could he possibly be weed?

"it's a plant, and if you Happen to light it on fire, there are some effects...."

hmm that would explain the mental fog that LOST creates.

[Poopaphone]

ok, i'll do that, when you answer all my questions from (4?) posts ago and defend your own argument rather than argue against someone else.:D in ohter words...why he is not a plant


WHAT????


I'm saying that it's much more complicated to the current story line to introduce THING 2 as a planted other, than to assume he is what we are presented with; a lostie who's time it is to shine since so many are now dead.

By your own logic, I shouldn't to defend the easier scenario.

[WickedSlip]

WHAT????


I'm saying that it's much more complicated to the current story line to introduce THING 2 as a planted other, than to assume he is what we are presented with; a lostie who's time it is to shine since so many are now dead.

By your own logic, I shouldn't to defend the easier scenario.

the question in speculation is: is jacob a plant and if he is, who is he? paolo answers that question.

so, if you eliminate paolo and a plant from specualtion, poop, how are you explaining jacob? you're not, you're just attacking the theory that he is without providing an alternative argument.

making paolo the plant doesn't complicate the story line, it cleanly explains who jacob is. period.

want to go the simple route? why introduce paolo at all if he has no purpose? a red shirt can be a red shirt without speaking parts...why complicate it that much more by making him talk?

[Darkhorse]

wait... so jacob is smokie, and a plant...
could he possibly be weed?

"it's a plant, and if you Happen to light it on fire, there are some effects...."

hmm that would explain the mental fog that LOST creates.

ROFL! Digi, that removed my Losticil headache! Thank you! :D

[Poopaphone]

the question in speculation is: is jacob a plant and if he is, who is he?

That's already a huge leap of faith. "He's not on Jacob's list" is far too little information to speculate that Jacob is a plant in the losties camp.

The simply answer to "who is Jacob?" is "Someone we haven't met yet", not "Thing 2, who has assumed the role of a dead passenger."

How about Jacob is Tom, Tom Jacob. Tom was upset that Ethan didn't provide him a list. You pointed out the "I" in his discussion with Ethan. Thus it seems that Tom was responsible for collecting the list. So he threw a list together.

there nice and neat.

[D'zle]

That's already a huge leap of faith. "He's not on Jacob's list" is far too little information to speculate that Jacob is a plant in the losties camp.

The simply answer to "who is Jacob?" is "Someone we haven't met yet", not "Thing 2, who has assumed the role of a dead passenger."


I'm affraid i have to side with poops on this one.

[WickedSlip]

That's already a huge leap of faith. "He's not on Jacob's list" is far too little information to speculate that Jacob is a plant in the losties camp.

The simply answer to "who is Jacob?" is "Someone we haven't met yet", not "Thing 2, who has assumed the role of a dead passenger."

introducing another character is not simple, poop. it's adding on, complicating. much simpler to go with what characters we already have....and we have paolo.

even if you don't speculate that he (being jacob) is a mole; it is simpler to assume he is one of the existing characters than to introduce another variable.

[Poopaphone]

[/B]

introducing another character is not simple, poop. it's adding on, complicating. much simpler to go with what characters we already have....and we have paolo.

even if you don't speculate that he (being jacob) is a mole; it is simpler to assume he is one of the existing characters than to introduce another variable.


Agreed to your second point. It's taking it another step further by assuming its a mole.

Jacob could be:

Smokey
a nameless other
HIM (sort of introduced right?)
patchy

I'm affraid i have to side with poops on this one.



Don't be afraid.

[WickedSlip]

Agreed to your second point. It's taking it another step further by assuming its a mole.

Jacob could be:

Smokey
a nameless other
HIM (sort of introduced right?)
patchy

happynakeddance!!!!!!!!

/me wiggles and jiggles

see......smokey=jacob=Him

YAY US!!!!

[Skirtz]

I would think so....if they did it right that is. They should have ended on a big mind blow. Something that will make you go NO F'ING WAY :eek:
Amen! and Ditto! There, this post isn't too short now.

[AVREY97]

Amen! and Ditto! There, this post isn't too short now.
In this weeks podcast they prepped us that there would be no big reveal, that they're saving that for the second half of the season. Rather they were just going to leave us with a huge question mark as to what the fate of these characters would be. A Will they be able to pull it off moment. You have to admit, the way it ended had you wanting more did it not??

[ButtonPusher]

Hard facts:

The "Jacob's list" remark. What does this tell us?

1. That the owner of a list of Losties is named Jacob. Whether or not he ordered the list or made it is unknown.
2. We know Jack wasn't on it.

Others lists that we know about
1. Klugh had a list of 4 people for Micheal to retrieve
2. Ben ordered Ethan and Goodwin to make lists
3. Tom was upset that Ethan didn't make his list
4. 2 out of the 3 lists were to be made by moles.

assumption:
5. Goodwin made his list
end assumption
and Eko found it on one of the Other's he killed.

Just trying to bring some facts to the table.

[alarose20]

Hard facts:

The "Jacob's list" remark. What does this tell us?

1. That the owner of a list of Losties is named Jacob. Whether or not he ordered the list or made it is unknown.
2. We know Jack wasn't on it.

Others lists that we know about
1. Klugh had a list of 4 people for Micheal to retrieve
2. Ben ordered Ethan and Goodwin to make lists
3. Tom was upset that Ethan didn't make his list
4. 2 out of the 3 lists were to be made by moles.

assumption:
5. Goodwin made his list
end assumption
and Eko found it on one of the Other's he killed.

Just trying to bring some facts to the table.
correcto... let's not also forget that the tallies experienced an "ambush" from the Others where the children were taken, and people were Tailies were killed... Eko found the list on thte Other that he killed... they had a list and were able to get who they needed...

Since Ethan did not make his list, the Fuselage members did not experience that type of ambush and no one was taken (aside from Scott/Steve b/c Ethan said he'd kill someone till he got Claire)... this helps to answer why the Fuselage members did not get taken or killed by Others in the beginning and also helps support the fact that ther's another mole in the group that made the list at a later date.

[Agent Smith]

Agreed to your second point. It's taking it another step further by assuming its a mole.

Jacob could be:

Smokey
a nameless other
HIM (sort of introduced right?)
patchyAnyone wonder who the guy is that left the cigarette butts in the 'Pearl' station?

Watching the 'Swan' hatch, seeing Ben taken hostage, taking notes, making a list(?).

[AVREY97]

Which takes us to Locke and Desmonds brilliant idea of the hatches can communicate with each other via the computers.

Remember waaaaay back to Lockdown? Ben was gone in those vents for quite a while, could he have been communicating with this person?
Or am I getting too far ahead of myself?

[alarose20]

Anyone wonder who the guy is that left the cigarette butts in the 'Pearl' station?

Watching the 'Swan' hatch, seeing Ben taken hostage, taking notes, making a list(?).
yea... I woder who that was. TPTB made it very clear in a podcast last spring that the cigarrettes were definately smoking... I've yet to understand why they'd say that... and where that preson was.

[WickedSlip]

Which takes us to Locke and Desmonds brilliant idea of the hatches can communicate with each other via the computers.

Remember waaaaay back to Lockdown? Ben was gone in those vents for quite a while, could he have been communicating with this person?
Or am I getting too far ahead of myself?

i don't think so (that you're getting ahead of yourself)...i think you're dead on.

[Uncle Pasto]

Also there goes the theory that Walt was communicating with Michael via the computer using his mind skills. Did someone let him log on?

[AVREY97]

What Im thinking Pasto is that wasn't Walt at all. Never was. It was the others, or whoever was manning the Pearl Station at the time, trying to lure Michael out so the others could capture him.

[Uncle Pasto]

Damn you are good!

[SunSpot]

What Im thinking Pasto is that wasn't Walt at all. Never was. It was the others, or whoever was manning the Pearl Station at the time, trying to lure Michael out so the others could capture him.

Could be.... and it doesnt necessarily have to be the Pearl where this was done from. We already know Patchy has a computer, and I dont think it is unsafe to assume every remaining station has a working computer. (Based on the fact the Hatch map says there is a Dharmatel network)

[AVREY97]

My reasoning for thinking it was the Pearl though is that in the Pearl,whoever was manning that station could specifically see that Michael was at the computer at that moment.

[bladerunna]

What Im thinking Pasto is that wasn't Walt at all. Never was. It was the others, or whoever was manning the Pearl Station at the time, trying to lure Michael out so the others could capture him.

thats what i thought

im guessing that in the hydra there is a computer that they could use, or as you said avery, in the pearl

[jocke]

Just another fact to add to the table....

We HAVE met a Jacob in the LOST universe already.

Jacob Vanderfield from The Hanso Foundation. He was on the board of directors. I seriously doubt that this has anything to do with the list Jacob, but an interesting coincidence, nonetheless.

[Candy]

Jalocke, there is not much you can "seriously" doubt in the show.

Well, except that they are probably not talking about my brother, Jacob.

[losty09]

I found this

Who is "Jacob" and why is Jack not on his "list"?
"The answer lies further downstream in the ongoing story", says Cuse. A clue? Lindelof reminds fans that character names in Lost are not assigned without reason, YES! that is a clue.
Source: The Fuselage

so, let's look at why Jacob would have that name eh. in the bible, Jacob was the younger brother of Essau, and the father of the twelve tribes right? He was one of the Patriarchs. So perhaps that suggests he is definately high up on the others chain of command.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob

somebody help me out here. What can we infer about LOST's Jacob from the significance of hte name?

[hugos_brother]

In the Bible, Jacob's youngest son was named Benjamin. thats the only other reference i could find

[chronictrees]

In the Bible, Jacob's youngest son was named Benjamin. thats the only other reference i could find

That's pretty significant, I could see Ben's father coming in as a character on the show, maybe he is calling shots from the outside world.

[hugos_brother]

That's pretty significant, I could see Ben's father coming in as a character on the show, maybe he is calling shots from the outside world.

it would explain alot if the leadership was passed along from birth, like perhaps Jacob was the original leader, and then passed his power along to Ben. Because Ben said he had been on the island since birth

[ChloeX]

it would explain alot if the leadership was passed along from birth, like perhaps Jacob was the original leader, and then passed his power along to Ben. Because Ben said he had been on the island since birth
I like where you 2 are going with this.
Maybe that's also why Juliette, the fertility doctor, is there. Ben is infertile and needs to have a child to pass the power onto.

[Agent Smith]

it would explain alot if the leadership was passed along from birth, like perhaps Jacob was the original leader, and then passed his power along to Ben. Because Ben said he had been on the island since birthAnd maybe Juliette is his sister. :eek:

I like where you 2 are going with this.
Maybe that's also why Juliette, the fertility doctor, is there. Ben is infertile and needs to have a child to pass the power onto.And going along with my last post, if Juliette is his sister and Ben dies of cancer before he has an heir, then the power transfers to Juliette. Maybe that's why Ben tried to drown her when Jack opened the hatch. :eek:

[hugos_brother]

And going along with my last post, if Juliette is his sister and Ben dies of cancer before he has an heir, then the power transfers to Juliette. Maybe that's why Ben tried to drown her when Jack opened the hatch. :eek:

and would also explain why she wants him dead

[losty09]

so you guys are thinking that like, juliet = biblical joseph?

[Agent Smith]

so you guys are thinking that like, juliet = biblical joseph?ummm, no. I'm thinking that they might be brother and sister and they want each other dead.

I'm also thinking about having some Double Stuf Oreos.

[Japemead]

That makes a ot of sense, actually... I didn't realize Jacob ad a son named Ben in the Bible, and that really could lead everything along...

[losty09]

right smith, but that is what i am saying. In the bible, Benjamin and Joseph are brothers, so they would like, both be in line for inheritence sort of. And you guys were talking about juliet wanting him dead so she could become leader.. i dunno.

nvm.

but i definately think Jacob is higher up then Ben.

[Candy]

Just to keep everything up to date: Is it safe to say that most of us suspect that Jacob(s) is Ben's father?

Or would it be more accurate to say that most simply suspect he is Ben's superior in the chain of command?

[Agent Smith]

Just to keep everything up to date: Is it safe to say that most of us suspect that Jacob(s) is Ben's father?

Or would it be more accurate to say that most simply suspect he is Ben's superior in the chain of command?Don't ask me...I've pretty much forgotten what's happened this season. :(

[Darkhorse]

Just to keep everything up to date: Is it safe to say that most of us suspect that Jacob(s) is Ben's father?

Or would it be more accurate to say that most simply suspect he is Ben's superior in the chain of command?

As far as Jacob being Ben's father, I have believed this since the name Jacob came up, Candy. :D My guess is Jacob is one of the original Dharmites and is either still over Ben or has passed the chain of command onto Ben, causing friction among this group of Others.

And, to add to what Losty and some others here have posted:

Benjamin and Joseph were the youngest and the favorites of the Biblical Jacob's 12 sons. The 10 older sons were extremely jealous of this fact and threw Joseph down a well leaving him for dead. They went and told their father that Joseph was attacked and killed by a "boar". (interesting) The truth is (if memory serves me right) some foreigners passed by the well, rescued him and intended on keeping him as a slave in their country. The King of that country (can't remember which one) was amazed at Joseph's integrity, dicipline, and spiritual gifts and eventually put him in charge of his own personal assets and much of the kingdom. Eventually, Joseph was reunited with his "birth" family, but a lot of interesting things happened inbetween, including years of imprisonment due to a false accusation. AND, ..... his his own brothers did not recognize him when they met again - a fact Joseph used to his advantage. It is a truly interesting story with a lot happening in between.

If the names of our Lost characters are chosen because of meaning, then we can pull a lot from this. I think there is a great posibility that most of the 1st group of Others we know are probably children of the original 12 Dharma people, whether male or female and that some may be brother and sister or 1/2 brother and sister. I also think some of them are related to the Losties.

I don't know about Juliet being the Joseph of the story, but with Lost, anything is posible!

[Candy]

ok. then my money is on Ben's dad being Jacob(s).

[Dusk]

I think Jacob will be more of a metaphorical father rather then literal... but if they decide to play the family ties game, then I'm all for it!

[professor]

Just another fact to add to the table....

We HAVE met a Jacob in the LOST universe already.

Jacob Vanderfield from The Hanso Foundation. He was on the board of directors. I seriously doubt that this has anything to do with the list Jacob, but an interesting coincidence, nonetheless.

Good catch, Jocke--I forgot about him.

And coincidence? I think not--nothing on this show is concidnetal! All the names being reused and situatuions that overlap that SEEM coincidental--it will be interresting to see how it is all tied together.

[AVREY97]

Just another fact to add to the table....

We HAVE met a Jacob in the LOST universe already.

Jacob Vanderfield from The Hanso Foundation. He was on the board of directors. I seriously doubt that this has anything to do with the list Jacob, but an interesting coincidence, nonetheless.
I'll throw in my two cents on this, yes, it is a very big coincidence, but Im thinking they are not going to incorperate the game into the show. Not everyone played the game so to have someone of THAT significance come from the game, wouldn't be as powerful or mind blowing to everyone except to the game players.

[losty09]

ahem

"God loves you like he loved JACOB."

goodnight all.

[Skirtz]

I just wanna know what sublymonal messages they were showing Karl in that video...

And, just how DID God love Jacob??? Like Jesus? Like Biblical Jacob? or maybe not at all???

[Darkhorse]

I believe God loved Jacob in many ways, but

The most significant ones with regards to the show would be:

That God loved Jacob, but hated (his twin) Esau

and

that Jacob would be blessed with many descendants! (children, grandchildren,... etc...) could have to do with fertility issues on island and Juliet - reason for being there.

[Poopaphone]

How about Jacob = Smokey.

Smokey has been testing people for remorse. Kate, Jack, and Hugo are full of it; on the list. Sawyer, not so much; not on the list.

Echo, not at all; dead.

*edit, I screwed up. Jack is not on the list, Sawyer is. Jack was added by ben for the surgery.

[WickedSlip]

well, smokie IS and god LOVED jacob, so if i were going to be picky about tenses i'd say that jacob WAS, not is.

but then again, jacob could have been loved before having found redemption as karl is loved before finding his redemption.

or something.

[Poopaphone]

well, smokie IS and god LOVED jacob, so if i were going to be picky about tenses i'd say that jacob WAS, not is.

but then again, jacob could have been loved before having found redemption as karl is loved before finding his redemption.

or something.

Everything in the bible is past tense. I don't get the argument...

The only thing we know for sure about Jacob at this point is that he made a list that Jack is not on. There is four possible lists thus far: Ethan's, Goodwin's, the manifest, and the one klough gave michael (which is my vote http://www.stationzer0.com/lost-forums/season-three/882-who-jacob-4.html?highlight=klugh post 31).

I think smokey is like Santa, making a list, and checking it twice. Echo saw smokey twice, Locke saw it twice - the second time it tried to take him away...

The list it makes is people who are bad, but redeemable.

[WickedSlip]

Everything in the bible is past tense. I don't get the argument...

The only thing we know for sure about Jacob at this point is that he made a list that Jack is not on. There is four possible lists thus far: Ethan's, Goodwin's, the manifest, and the one klough gave michael (which is my vote http://www.stationzer0.com/lost-forums/season-three/882-who-jacob-4.html?highlight=klugh post 31).

I think smokey is like Santa, making a list, and checking it twice. Echo saw smokey twice, Locke saw it twice - the second time it tried to take him away...

The list it makes is people who are bad, but redeemable.

the bible was written in past tense retrospective. but this is not the bible, this is lost. syntax may or may not be relevant.

[Lo$tto]

The only thing we know for sure about Jacob at this point is that he made a list that Jack is not on.

Perhaps because Jacob is Jack, just not yet. Both are lonely and angry leaders. Just sayin'

[RockGod]

Jacob is a four toed invisible man

[Viva]

Mulling over the thoughts of two opposing island forces vying for their own gain, I am forced to ponder Jacob's only comment.

Help me.

He specifically asked Locke to help him. why and how?

I don't really believe that Jacob took the form of Christian. i think somehow Christian has run J off, or taken over to an extent. J needs help. Is that why christian told Locke to move the island? To get him away from Jacob and so that J couldn't get any help?

I think J is in trouble, and only Locke can help him.

[AprilisLost]

Mulling over the thoughts of two opposing island forces vying for their own gain, I am forced to ponder Jacob's only comment.

Help me.

He specifically asked Locke to help him. why and how?

I don't really believe that Jacob took the form of Christian. i think somehow Christian has run J off, or taken over to an extent. J needs help. Is that why christian told Locke to move the island? To get him away from Jacob and so that J couldn't get any help?

I think J is in trouble, and only Locke can help him.

That's how I feel about it too. It almost seems like Jacob has been taken prisoner and he needs Locke to free him. I don't know if it was Christian or something else, but I agree that he's in trouble. Perhaps Jacob/the island is dying due to something that the Losties or Ben and his people did.

[Viva]

I am agreeing with you, but going over to a Ben thread to elaborate on how I feel about Benny right now...

[professor]

I was thinking after last nights show, Horace is way more than Olivia's husband...could he be Jacob? Trying to be freed?

Horace (in myth) was the son of a freedman, he was a poet and served in the military. He seemed to be in charge, or at least high up, until Jim LaFleur got there.

[AVREY97]

I was thinking after last nights show, Horace is way more than Olivia's husband...could he be Jacob? Trying to be freed?

Horace (in myth) was the son of a freedman, he was a poet and served in the military. He seemed to be in charge, or at least high up, until Jim LaFleur got there.


My mom brought that up to me today as well. He did actually look a lot more ragged and desheveled in this episode. His hair was also a lot more long and messy.

Horace also has a STRONG connection to Egyption mythology. Horus was the god of the Sky, Sun, and War.

I'll show you the first connection I made with Horace:
The God Horus is always depicted as a falcon:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Horus_as_falcon.svg/450px-Horus_as_falcon.svg.png

We've seen a falcon (with green wings to boot!) like that before on the island:
http://www.tvsquad.com/media/2006/05/biggreenbird.png
The Hurley Bird.

Could Horace as Jacob be watching over them as a falcon?

[professor]

Can Jacob change forms now as well? Or maybe he can just inhabit other forms? Or maybe he's Smokie, who I believe does these things.

You are right, Horace seemed more ragged, and more invested to me this time. There is definately something big surrounding him.

[Viva]

I just don't know anymore. I am tired of thinking about everything so broadly. I miss the good old days when I thought Jacob was a person...a plain old ghostie of a person.

I think I would like to go back to my little white room with padded walls and just think of Jacob as a person. Just a guy, stuck in a not quite dead timespace dimensional malfunction, who needs a little help.

/bangs head on wall and hopes nosebleed will pass

/help ME!

[carrie3570]

I think Jacob will be a person (of sorts). Maybe a ghost or alien or something like that, but whatever he is, he will look like a man. I certainly do not believe Jacob is a bird or Smokie or a boar or anything else.

[Agent Smith]

I'm leaning towards Horace being Jacob, also. I've thought it for a while, but things have derailed my speculation over the course of watching this show. He seems to have a pretty prominent role in different aspects of the course of the show and his interactions with the Losties. It's always stuck in my head that when Ben came back from killing his father that they showed Horace dead on the ground. He's had interactions with Locke and Sawyer (while dead and alive) and he's indirectly responsible for sending Ben on his path. If he had given Roger a better job, maybe he wouldn't have resented Ben so much.

[Agent Smith]

Eloise made a remark this season saying that 'a very smart man found a way to find the island' (or something like that).

Horace is(was) a Mathematician for the Dharma Initiative. Could he have been the one to discover how to find the island? This would make him pretty important to the island and maybe someone the island wants to protect or at least see back in power.

He was a leader for the DI. He's been seen by Locke building a cabin. He was killed in the purge and I'm thinking that he's ascended as Jacob to a higher plane and is caught there until this 'war' is over and he's freed again.

Probably wrong, but I'd still like to be a fly on Avrey's wall if/when it's revealed during the show that I'm right. :D

[AprilisLost]

He was a leader for the DI. He's been seen by Locke building a cabin. He was killed in the purge and I'm thinking that he's ascended as Jacob to a higher plane and is caught there until this 'war' is over and he's freed again.


Caught on a higher plane, or caught in time? Or between times rather? I've been thinking that something may have caused Jacob (whoever that may be) to be stuck between times somehow, to go with Daniel's record analogy, caught between tracks. Perhaps he will be freed when they restore the proper order to the island.

[Will]

I think Jacob is definately Locke.

It'd be a classic theme--meeting yourself and such.

Is it possible that Locke gets trapped between event horizons, somehow, and needs "flesh" Locke to straighten it out? A lot of this is based on the fact that I believe Locke will turn out to be either the ultimate Island leader or the actual "heart" of the Island.

[hugos_brother]

Anyone else starting to think that Jacob and the smoke monster could be one and the same?

What really made me think about this was in a recent episode where Sun and Frank were walking along the dock, cue smoke monster noises and quick sighting, then "Jacob" in Jack's Dad form walks out of a house.

That just seemed a bit too coincidental for my tastes.

[Agent Smith]

Anyone else starting to think that Jacob and the smoke monster could be one and the same?

What really made me think about this was in a recent episode where Sun and Frank were walking along the dock, cue smoke monster noises and quick sighting, then "Jacob" in Jack's Dad form walks out of a house.

That just seemed a bit too coincidental for my tastes.No.

:cool:

[carrie3570]

No.

:cool:

I concur. ;)

I also think it may be a possibility that Jacob is the guy that gave Sayid the drugs. He was living out in the jungle in a tent of sorts, looked like he isn't into modern things. Maybe he defected from the Hostiles, or came from somewhere else, I dunno. He didn't give his first name, but his last name was Oldham I think.

[AprilisLost]

I concur. ;)

I also think it may be a possibility that Jacob is the guy that gave Sayid the drugs. He was living out in the jungle in a tent of sorts, looked like he isn't into modern things. Maybe he defected from the Hostiles, or came from somewhere else, I dunno. He didn't give his first name, but his last name was Oldham I think.

I was thinking that too for a minute there when they were walking up to Oldham's camp. I thought for sure he was going to be living in the cabin, but then the teepee popped up and I was like, dang it.

[carrie3570]

Before the season finale I wanted to post my top 3 picks for "Who is Jacob"

1. Daniel Faraday. The reason the Others have been in contact with him, and keep him locked up is because they need him to make sure the timeline stays the same (you aren't supposed to leave, etc. comes to mind).

2. Lockes true father. The reason I think this is because of the discussion between Ben and Locke where Ben says he has to kill his father to be leader. Richard gives John an "out" with Sawyer. Sawyers does the killing and Locke is the accomplice. Locke did not become leader at that point.

3. Desmond. He is the only person that "whatever happened, happened" doesn't apply too. The Others keep he locked up so he can't change the timeline.

My top 3 has changed because there was a time I thought it was someone from the Shephard bloodline. I still hope it turns out that way because that was my first thought, but now it looks like it will be someone else to me.

[WickedSlip]

Did They say Jacob is someone we know?

i'm going out on a limb with my 3

1) jacob is from the faaaaar distant future and the love child of characters we know. maybe Adam and Eve. maybe jack and kate; sawyer and jules. hell, maybe even their grandchild. or aaron's child.

2) jacob is alvar hanso

3)jacob isn't associated with anyone we know-- at all-- and They are just screwing with us.

maybe it's a combination of all three. i really don't care who he is. i really just want him to be someone that NO ONE could have guessed. (but i totally dig the idea of him being from the fewcha)

[Will]

"Help me" are the only words we know FOR SURE Jacob has spoken. I'm trying to match that sentiment with a personality/situation.

Faraday is an easy choice.

Locke is a strong possibility.

Ben would be an unexpected delight.

[jerry maguire]

Before the season finale I wanted to post my top 3 picks for "Who is Jacob"

1. Daniel Faraday. The reason the Others have been in contact with him, and keep him locked up is because they need him to make sure the timeline stays the same (you aren't supposed to leave, etc. comes to mind).

2. Lockes true father. The reason I think this is because of the discussion between Ben and Locke where Ben says he has to kill his father to be leader. Richard gives John an "out" with Sawyer. Sawyers does the killing and Locke is the accomplice. Locke did not become leader at that point.

3. Desmond. He is the only person that "whatever happened, happened" doesn't apply too. The Others keep he locked up so he can't change the timeline.

My top 3 has changed because there was a time I thought it was someone from the Shephard bloodline. I still hope it turns out that way because that was my first thought, but now it looks like it will be someone else to me.

My only question then, why do they call him Jacob? We have a Daniel, and a Desmond, and unless Johns father's name is Jacob, it's gotta be a new character, right?

[WickedSlip]

My only question then, why do they call him Jacob? We have a Daniel, and a Desmond, and unless Johns father's name is Jacob, it's gotta be a new character, right?

you'd think. but you've got sawyer, jim, james, lafleur. wickman, candle, hallowax, whatever. the writers like to screw with names.

or maybe it's jacob because it was programmed by default of self fulfilling prophecy to be jacob, much as locke was leader because he went back in time and said he was.

i really lean toward thinking this is going to be an f-you-and-your-theories revelation from the writers and, you're right, it's someone new.

[carrie3570]

Did They say Jacob is someone we know?

Yes they did, in a podcast right after we saw Jacob. Not sure when that was. I know we hadn't met Faraday at that point, however we do see him in 1954, 1977 - before the year 2004 when they said we had seen Jacob. Darlton are always doing things like that - twisting the truth.

[jerry maguire]

you'd think. but you've got sawyer, jim, james, lafleur. wickman, candle, hallowax, whatever. the writers like to screw with names.

or maybe it's jacob because it was programmed by default of self fulfilling prophecy to be jacob, much as locke was leader because he went back in time and said he was.

i really lean toward thinking this is going to be an f-you-and-your-theories revelation from the writers and, you're right, it's someone new.

Or, lets say it is Faraday. If/when he travels around through time, he tells the people at some point his name's Jacob. Just so he doesn't "change" anything in the future. Know what I mean? He may have just said his name is Jakob so people don't go around saying "I'll ask Daniel", then later on, figure out it's him.